At the risk of exposing myself as naive and unsophisticated, I would like to ask readers to explain the Qur’anic verses used in the Fitna flim. Please don’t defend the situation by saying that the Bible has comparable verses. It does, but Christians are not going around blowing up themselves and others in obedience to those verses.Why are Muslims?
And please don’t tell me that American supported Zionism is behind it all. That’s too simple. And please don’t tell me to ignore it, like most Muslims are ignoring it. It won’t go away.
Of course, the verses are couched in context, but why are they not abrogated? Surely the potential for misuse should have sparked abrogation.
I’ve been a Muslim for many years, but those verses are problematic for me. The existence of ten positive verses for every verse encouraging violence does not cancel out the verses calling for violence.
I apologize in advance if I’ve offended anyone by calling attention to the elephant the room.
Excuse me for invading your blog in this crass manner. I have posted the biggest part of our analasis on Clouddragon’s forum. The reason that there hasn’t have been more insight into Wilders’ movie is because nobody (this includes my Muslim brothers and sisters) In The Netherlands cares. His little cry for attention is mostly seen as a defective joke.
I would like to state that only a, very, minor few in my country agree with Wilders. Unfortunately ignoring his ‘effort’ is the best way to kill it off.
Welcome, Rhysz, your input here is neither crass nor an invasion. but hard as your words are for me to believe, I must believe that what you say is true. No one cares. Well, at least in your country no one cares.
Here, things are different, or maybe just here, in my little neck of the woods, where the only thing people know about, “Allahu Akbar!” is that it is said just before one blows oneself up.
I also care because the verses cited in the film really are part of the Qur’an, and I don’t think we Muslims can or should simply shrug our shoulders and say we don’t care.
Thanks for stopping by, come back again any time!
I think you have to wait for a post i have on my blog about Fitna, other viowpoint. And i think i like to have an explanation for those verses (Arabic and english translation, approach, etc,) on Alif Lam Mim.
Give me sometime, Good girl 🙂
My understanding of the war /violence verses is that they will not lead to terror if we understand the Quran. There are 2 verses that are basic to my understanding of all other verses related to war or fighting:
2:190 And fight in God’s cause against those who wage war against you, but do not commit aggression-for,surely, God does not love aggressors.
22:39 Permission to fight is granted to those against whom war is wrongfully waged. And Allah is indeed Most Powerful for their aid.
I do not believe in abrogation. There are no contradictions in the Quran and all verses are the word of God. I believe that some verses set basic rules and others are details that pertain to certain circumstances.
Take care 🙂
Assalamo 3alaikom 🙂
I hope you find this article useful
You can also watch Imam Fadel Soliman explaining how Wilders deceived his audience, abusing their ignorance of the Qur’an and the Arabic language…
(He’s a specialised presenter of Islam throughout the world http://www.bridges-foundation.org/index.php?pg=team/category&id=2&lang=2)
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WuaPwjPGvw
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2lIe
Hope you find answers to your questions there….
fe amaan Allah…
I think the last link won’t work … plz try this one
I never meant to say you shouldn’t have, severe, reservations on this movie. Personally, I truly believe that just ignoring it is the best way to get rid of this ‘movie’.
(weird, capitol I was changed to : every time.)
Thank you all, for these responses. They are exactly what I needed. The links to Bridges work just fine, and I’ll spend more time there tomorrow, insha’Allah. Thanks, Dalia.
Shahrzad, I look forward to you all your posts.
My Arab son-in-law spent some time with me looking up refutations on the Internet, and masha’Allah, we found many. We found videos on YouTube using the original Fitna movie and inserting the refutations into it. They are easy to find, so I am now satisfied that Muslims who have the knowledge and ability to put a refutation together have done so.
~W~, abrogation is a controversial topic. Most Muslims do not believe in it. I would not necessarily reject it, but I would not be quick to pronounce anything regarding the Qur’an, other than a decent recitation.
I am surprised by what you wrote about abrogation Marahm: “abrogation is a controversial topic. Most Muslims do not believe in it.” I was not aware it is so contraversial, could you explain for me? 🙂 Umm Ibrahim
Thank you for asking this question, Umm Ibrahim; you’ve made me realize how careful I need to be when talking about Islam.
As you know, there are “Mansookh” and “Naseekjh” verses, those that are abrograted by those that came after.
What I meant by “Most Muslims don’t believe in it,” is that most Muslims do not believe that Qur’anic verses are actually abrograted. There are several verses that suggest abrogation was deliberately done by Allah, because certain instructions given in the beginning became unnecessary and in need of revision. According to this interpretation, there is no real contradiction in the Qur’an and no real abrogation. This view seems to be the more widespread view. This is what I learned when I became a Muslim.
Another view suggests that there really is such a thing as abrogation, and therefore the Qur’an cannot be the infallible word of Allah. Non-Muslims like thisview.
I did a Google search on “abrogation in the quran” and tweny pages of references popped up!
I do not pretend to know what is correct. In this post regarding the Fitna film, I was bothered by the verses used in it to prove that Islam is a bloodthirsty religion. Even though I now understand how those verses were taken out of context, I am still bothered by the fact that such verses exist at all, given the potential for misinterpretation that now runs rampant throughout the world.
Ok… I obviously need to do some extensive reading up on this topic. I learned about abrogation in the Quran due to Allah introducing some concepts slowly to the Muslims to make the transition from Jahiliyya to Islam easier, (e.g. the example of the gradual forbidding of alcohol). In our Islamic Law classes at uni actually we learned about two different concepts: abrogation and abnegation. Really need to read up again though as I said, it’s been a while. 🙄
Excuse me for not commenting on the actual post; I hadn’t heard of this ‘Fitna’ movie until reading about it on your blog and Aafke’s and haven’t watched the clip. These clips take a long time to buffer… maybe you could post the ayat references that bother you. 🙂
I saw this movie recently and it was absolutely pathetic. The verses are all taken out of context and the footage used has no correlation with Islam. Without understanding the historical reasons behind why the Muslim and Arab world is so bitter towards the west, all you get is an incomplete picture.
Yes, there are problems with our Ummah and we need to address them, but we also need to speak out against this kind of ignorance. The director calls Islam a “retarded” culture which reeks of prejudice. He’s idiotic too — there are 1.7 billion Muslims in the world, does he really think he can convince the world to ban the Qur’an?
He could surely convince half the poplulation of the United States. Actually, this movie is redundant, simply reinforcing what most (non-Muslim) Americans already believe.
Do you think that “Arab bitterness towards the West” caused or justified
events such as 9/11? Do you think 9/11 evened the score? If Westerners did not understand the historical issues behind “Arab bitterness” before 9/11, their minds are now closed forever as a result of that atrocity.
As a Muslim with knowledge, you can call this film “idiotic.” You can dismiss it as ignorant, but try to view it as a non-Muslim Westerner might view it. You’ll realize, then, the power of ignorance.
Where in the Quran does it state for a muslim to go and blow themselves up? if I remember correclty there’s verse in the Quran, which translated lightly means, not to go into danger. and surely blowing oneself, goes under those lines. I don’t get why you go believing something in a stupid film, produced by non muslims, when you can just go and open the Quran, and see that there’s no such thing as muslims being told to blow themselves up, that’s called suicide.
Thank you for your comment, Hebah, and welcome! The Qur’anic verses to which you refer do not give rise to controversial interpretation. They do not inspire certain “Muslims” to blow themselves up, but other verses do.
I suppose I’d like to know why the Ummah has fallen into such a state that has allowed– even encouraged– Qur’anic verses to be used in service murder and suicide. The first order of business, if one is to scratch the surface of this vast situation, is to examine the source material, the Qur’an, as you stated.
If any verse so much as hints at a justification for such destruction, why is it still there? What justification is there to have a verse that can be twisted and miscontrued? Human conflict escalates to war throughout history, and is a part of human nature, according to the Qur’an. Who could dispute this? However, wouldn’t the high road aim to manage this part of human nature without succombing to it?
I’m in over my head here, speculating and mentally meandering all over the place, but these are questions for minds of greater breadth than mine.
One can always anwer them with, “…because Allah said so,” which, frankly, is unsatisfying.
I will never beleive that there are verses in the Quran that tells a person to blow themselves up.
Of course, you would never believe that, Hebah, and neither would I! You miss my point, which is that certain groups of people who were raised as so-called Muslims DO believe it, and they believe it because the Qur’anic verses themselves are subject to misinterpretation.
I do not think that there are verses that can be understood as offensive. Fighting in the Quran is justified only in self defense. But anyone can see whatever he wants to see even if nothing is in there.